Re: BBC - Meeting over cuts to rail service

On 25 Jul, 14:59, Chris  Tolley <cj...@supanet.com> wrote:
> MIG wrote:
> > On Jul 25, 2:13 am, Chris  Tolley <cj...@supanet.com> wrote:
> >> MIG wrote:
> >>> I would rather travel on a 321 than a Pendolino.
>
> >> f/x: scratches head in disbelief.
>
> >> ... then ...
>
> >> Well, I did travel on a 321 myself today, one of the recently renovate
d
> >> sets that run from Leeds to Donny. It wasn't too bad, but only because
I
> >> had no plans for admiring the view.
>
> >> In general, though 321/150 and all of that ilk are not my preferred
> >> trains because there's nowhere you can sit that gives a decent view.
> >> It's certainly true that there are some seats on Pendos where you get 
no
> >> view or a less than ideal one, but there are plenty where it's fine.
>
> > This is kind of my point.  321s etc are bloody awful and for a long
> > time there wasn't much that was worse, till the Pendolinos came along
> > with even worse window views and no room to sit straight and fit even
> > fairly small shoulders in.
>
> > I share the disbelief that it could end up being nicer to sit in a 321
> > than anything (except maybe a 313).
>
> The benchmark for the absolute worst train in service has got to be the
> Merseyrail version of the 142. My heart falls whenever I see one. A few
> weeks back, I travelled from Carlisle to Lancaster round the Cumbrian
> Coast on one. I hated it. The seats are too small and too close
> together.

Not something I've experienced.  In general I've found that Pacers are
perfectly good buses, but it's a bad idea to put buses on rails (as
opposed to things like 321s, which are bad trains).

>
> For me, 321/150/etc come next.
>
> I'd put 313s and other PEP derivatives next, although in a remarkable
> attempt at contrition for the M142s, the M507 and 508s are very pleasant
> to travel in since their latest refurb.

I've generally put them the other way round, but it's a pretty close
thing and they are all awful.  The SWT 455/508 refurbishments are
definitely an improvement.

>
> At the other end of the scale, of all the trains I use regularly the
> 350s are probably the best, and I think much the same about the other
> lids of Desiro in service,

I would generally agree.  Recently I travelled in a 175 for the first
time and found that they were wide, with straight walls and
surprisingly quiet compared with most underfloor-engined trains.

And one thing that particularly got my attention was that not only was
the window-side armrest of an appriate height to get one's elbow on,
but it was raisable anyway, unlike the ones on some Electrostars which
are in the wrong place and won't move.

except that 360s are too cramped (and
> appallingly they even have a seat blocking half the width of the gangway
> between vehicles).
>
> On the right route, a 142 with the original bus seats can be a real
> pleasure to travel in.
>
> I'd put Pendos, Voyagers in the middle somewhere, possibly with some of
> the Electrostars slightly above them.

I'd leave the Pendos out of that grouping. I think the Voyagers and
Electrostars are similar in that they are an annoying slopy shape with
a reasonable amount of window, and I sort of don't mind them.  The
Pendolinos are in a class of their own for lack of window and cramped
ness.
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